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Wondering how to grow your audience quickly online? Using online giveaways and contests is a proven method for doing just that.

In this episode, Gleam.io co-founder John Sherwood shares how he built his startup, as well as some practical tips and insights into what works and doesn’t work when it comes to running giveaways and contests online.

We also talk to John about how he prevents burnout, and how he and his co-founder met and built a 7-figure business online together.  

Gleam.io is a key partner in our podcast launch giveaway. To participate in our $5K epic entrepreneur growth giveaway click here.

Listen in now.


Key Takeaways From This Episode:

  • Common mistakes that businesses make when trying to run viral contests that end up in failure (and how you can avoid it).
  • Why building up FB likes and shares is not a great contest strategy.
  • Examples of prizes that work best when planning your contest campaign.
  • How John met his co-founder, and how they were able to build a 7-figure business together.
  • Why John and the Gleam.io team don’t do meetings (at all)!
  • John’s best tip for avoiding burnout when bootstrapping your startup.



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A-Ha! Quotes from This Episode:

Building Likes is nice, but building up emails is worth a lot more. Click To Tweet

I took a pay cut but I was not going to put myself into a position where we were going broke. Click To Tweet


Resources Mentioned in This Episode:



Click here to view the full transcript

Anf: Alrighty, to celebrate the launch of this podcast, we’re running an iTunes and Stitcher contest. Leading up to the first 10 episodes of our show. one lucky winner is going to get an invite to become a founding member of our founders connect in a circle mastermind group which is normally worth 840 USD per year to join. We’re also going to give one lucky winner a 30 minute marketing blasts of consulting call with myself or a 30 minute ideal relationship coaching call with Cindy. We normally charge $500 per session, so definitely worth it. You can also win user licenses to a couple of our favorite online marketing tools. Thanks to our awesome contest partners, we will announce the winners on episode 11. So if you’d like to become a founding member of our founders connect in a circle or get some marketing or Relationship Coaching. Head on over to founders connect.co/win to enter now.

Cindy & Anf: Welcome to founders Connect podcast. We help lifestyle entrepreneurs to grow their business online and create a happier marriage.

Did you know that approximately 45% of marriages end up in divorce and 65% of all startups fail due to founder conflicts? We’re here to change that.

Each week, we bring you an inspiring guest and practical tips to help you with business, relationships and sustainable living. Now let the fun begin.

Alright. Hey guys. Welcome to founders Connect. And I’m Anfernee. I’m Cindy and we are talking about how to use online giveaways to grow your audience with Mr. JOHN Sherwood from gleam. io. JOHN is a self proclaimed jack of all trades, which I really like with a taste for web development, and is the tech co founder of gleam. io, which is a platform for running all kinds of things, which john will explain shortly. We’re actually using this platform for our giveaway as part of this contest. So as part of our podcast launch, which is really exciting, and or claim is also one of our partners in the giveaway, which is also really cool. So thanks, john, for coming on board and having chat with us today. Thank you, right there. So first question: on a scale of one to 10 How weird are you?. Yeah, so I heard this in the other podcast. And I was like, that’s an interesting question. No, sort of thinking about it in two ways. In one of the sort of an absolute scale is like how we could you be, and they were some really fucking weird people out there scale, I’m probably a 2 because you’ve got to people, so absolutely bizarre and out there that, you know, it makes my weakness look like this sort of trivial little tiny using credit thing, but in relative terms, compared to, you know, the average person probably a seven. So, you know, I’m fairly happy to sort of, you know, ignore some social norms, just for the sake of like, you know, if something feels like it doesn’t make sense, I will be happy to burn some of my social capital to ignore it join the club made, how would your kids answer that question for you? I think my kids don’t think they are weird at all. I think that, yeah, awesome. So do whatever they feel I can, you know, if that’s weird it just doesn’t register with them at all. So Excellent. So who’s been your greatest mentor in your life? Or Career? And what did you learn from them probably the biggest mentor I’ve ever had is my co founder. If i think about it like, I’ve never actually said, you know, hey, this guy’s my mentor, but in a lot of ways, because he’s got a very different skill set. to what I have a very different sort of mindset. He’s probably told me more than anyone else. Yeah. I from a point of like in our product, focus and marketing. I’ve mostly got like a few other mentors, like a code mentor, and a sort of business, someone with a MBA sort of thing. So I’ve got a few mentors. The I certainly my co founder will be the main one overall, what’s his name? Stuart. Okay, cool. How did you guys meet and how’d you get started? Well, funny thing, I’m actually going on the wall behind me. He actually sent me an email. So this is like, the story of our founding is actually pretty random. He basically just sprayed and prayed. He just hit up like anyone who wrote Ruby in Melbourne, and just like little meetup.com, and just spam a bunch of people and I was the only one that replied, wow, I love that. Hey, I can do here we go. So actually printed out the other week for them all. You got married it? Yeah. Hey, john, I saw you’re a member of the Ruby Meetup group. And Melvin I’m an affiliate marketer slash search marketing consultant, and did pretty well in the affiliate space. But like the technical skills to see a lot of my projects through to fruition, it’d be great to partner with someone and know them, it would let them my skills and create some fantastic app sites to profit from smiley face, smiley face, added it, give me a shout, if you’re interested. email address. Cheers Stuart. And yeah, that’s basically what, nine years ago we did that. And yeah, so online dating does work. This is pretty company. So at the time, when that call out what’s happening? Did he already have a concept and why he wanted to build or like, how did you guys sort of narrow in on what the platform would look like, and what it would do for people? Oh, this is actually pre gleam gleam is actually our fifth or sixth site. I, we built a couple of like affiliate websites before this Pinterest clone a server aggregator like a whole bunch of stuff. And like a white label product for building affiliate sites, you know, we always will use the learning from those sites, basically build the one we have now and gleams only that five year old. But Stuart I have been going for nine years now? Yeah, right there. Okay. Cool. So audience, what gleam sort of you’ve got four different sort of, I guess, apps or things that people can use on gleam. So what are the things that people can use? We talked about the contest one, obviously, but there are things there. And what problem is actually solving for businesses? Yes, it basically, you know, we build these four different products for like running is running competitions. One is running rewards where basically the competition rewards you perform actions to either get entries or either the form enough actions to receive like a coupon code, or a link or something like that. And then we’ve got like a gallery product for, you know, showcasing video and image content, audio as well. And also, there’s the lead capture product, which is just, you know, it’s like pop ups to capture emails, it’s basically just a one line install. And so I guess the sort of value proposition there is that if you want to build into these things, your own even remotely Well, it’s going to cost you a ton of development time, you know, or you have to get a sense of agency and hope they build a decent thing, and they’re probably going to rip you off. So yeah, like, you know, when you sort of, look at the options you’ve got, you can pay us like, you know, nothing, because we’ve got a free plan, but also like, you know, 39 bucks, and you get this fully featured competition widget that you can embed in your site, which, you know, if you went to an agency would cost you anywhere, like 25 grand, that’s really, really cool. What is sort of some results you’ve seen, all your clients have seen from using Gleam? Well, some of the big competitions, some of them have got, like, over 4 million entries, some of them would be you got a million users using them. And the best part is when they do that, and then we sort of go, Wow, so it’s really getting hammered. And you can sort of take the load on the database is going up, and then you’re who’s running that, and then you go have a look in and they’re paying us 39 bucks. So maybe you need to have like a commission based model something. Yeah our pricing is rubbish. And we really struggle to get it any better. Because people like my competitions and go viral, like it’s going to get a bazillion entries. Totally. And, you know, very few of them actually do. But people you know, which be too scared to sort of commit to paying per entry or anything like that. Like we’ve thrown up ideas over the years, every we can discuss it pretty much. And it’s just like, there’s no options, really. So where are you guys at the moment in terms of user base and where you want it to be? Yeah, so currently, we sort of made seven figures revenue, and we’re sort of working our way to 10 customers wise, we’ve got depends on what you sort of considered to be a customer, you know, people who have ever paid us or people who are paying us right now, or the number of users on rack, like we’ve got, you know, thousands of people paying us we’ve got 10s of thousands would have paid us we got a bit of churn because like, I like to run a competition then I in the subscription, maybe come back in a while, but like user base for people who are entering competitions and the other apps is your 10s of millions per month, right. Okay, that’s awesome. Narrator: Did you know that financial intimacy can lead to better sexual intimacy with your significant other money is never just about dollars and cents. Money is wrapped up with emotions such as fear, insecurity, envy, and guilt, and attitudes such as control. So one to improve your financial intimacy, grab our free guide at www.foundersconnect.co/financialintimacy. Today, you are listening to the founders Connect podcast, helping lifestyle entrepreneurs to grow their business online and create a happier marriage now back to the show. And so been in it for a while. Now, what are sort of the common myths I guess on mistakes you see businesses making we’re trying to run contests was anyone tries to do it. But I think a lot of people do. So for the ones that you’ve seen, do it, well, what would you say a couple of things that they’re implementing that really works so well. There’s two parts to it. There’s like, you know, what am I saying people do wrong with competitions in general. And that would be like, you know, people running Facebook competitions like, hey, tag three friends below, and like, and share and like, you know, that’s well and good. But it sort of just builds up Facebook likes, which are pretty much useless these days, when it pretty much is killed organic reach. And so, you know, those people leaving money on the table by not you our products, or similar product to sort of generate those leads emails as well, because, you know, building likes is nice, but yet, like actually getting an email if you would want to put dollar figures on things that’s worth a lot more. And also, you know, that it’s just a little ghetto sort of building the thing about like, just the, you know, here’s a random posts, please like, and share. Whereas, you know, having like a Schmidt competition widget, where you’ve got a whole bunch of other entries, like Twitter entries, and Instagram and everything else, it has a lot more value as far as people using our product, the biggest problem we get as people try to be fancy. So what we get is people who, like, hey, I’ve got this idea of how many run this competition, it’s gonna be amazing. It’s gonna be better than anything else. And we’re just like, please don’t get because they come up with just like these ideas. And then they basically shoehorned into our product. And people are just like, they just don’t get it. Like, I’ve seen places that have run like, really complicated competitions. And you know, when you have to go and do like, four in the real world entries, and, you know, basically go to four different restaurants is sort of thing with, you know, thousands of dollars worth of prizes. And then one person actually gets the end three, while probably what’s the worst thing is that something like a massive, very generic prize, and then just incredibly complicated competition with a whole bunch of really elaborate steps when you know, what goes really well. He’s like, hey, just follow us on Twitter and follow us on, you know, whatever else like, you know, these are platforms and to go and visit this deals page or things, they’re just keeping it simple is probably the best part of it. So when it comes to like, selecting prizes, because you mentioned, you know, having generic prizes, versus having more specific prizes for your audience. Yep. What other tips or what have you seen around that? And what’s worked really well, like, what’s the example of a contest that work really well, because the price election was just spot on Forbes? Audience? Yeah. So what did we have, we run a bit of both, we run sort of just some generic companies and giving away iPhones and networks just to sort of, you know, get numbers up. But for the most part, they’re not the type of people who buy our product. We’ve sort of feeding that into sort of a generic list of competition subscribers to build up partner competitions later, then we can sort of segment them out later. Like, one of our great examples is a company called be a brand and it’s all about beads. I’m not a customer, there’d be a lot better than I did. And they basically give away stuff like, you know, here’s some big oil, some diseases be terms all this other stuff. And pretty much like a gay the entry like, pretty much if you if as well. And she’s like sweepers like, you know, people who basically enter competitions, you know, in mass. Yeah, yeah. huge trend with the beard right now. But I can’t grow one. So I’m not the target audience. Now, you mentioned in your email to me that your experience with burnout. Tell me about that. And what advice can you give to entrepreneurs about burnout and avoiding burnout? Well, yeah, first thing is that when he ran a bit of a different company like Stew and I have bootstrapped and we only went full time in 2013, and basically the decision to do that was because we could afford ourselves. So rather than going all in with risk. And then basically worrying about, you know, bring it a runway that, you know, go through sort of financial hardship, we basically said, Okay, how much do we need? We feel like $10,000 a month. And when we hit that mark, sorry, froze up there. I’m not sure what’s going on with a soft, our Wi Fi signal was dying. But what our last call was, you guys had worked out that you needed 10 grand a month to make it happen. So what happened from there? Yeah, so basically, I came on full time. Simple as that. Like I said, Okay, quit my contracting job. I took less money, like, when I was contracting, is a job, a contractor in Melbourne. That’s pretty lucrative. That’s like, $1,000 a day sort of thing. So I took a pay cut, but I was not going to put myself in a position where at the time I had two kids, I slept two kids. But yeah, basically, I’m not gonna put myself in a position where we’re going to be going broke. And I have to go, you know, my wife would have to go get like a crappy part time job. And all you know, just the usual stuff that goes through in financial hardship. Yeah, and you guys make the choice not to go down the path of trying to get funders and you know, that kind of stuff investment outside of the bootstrap model. And that’s just, yeah, it’s kind of funny. Now, at the time, we never even considered it like, it just seems kind of ridiculous, like, we just moonlight as the years like, I’d be on my train in the morning. And before that, just on the kitchen table from six to eight in the morning, and then go to work, we were progressing just fine, you know, some of the early aside space and decent cash, and it just felt completely unnecessary to ever raise money. Take us back to the early days, when you were getting Gleam off the ground. How did you sort of get your boosting acquisition, like what worked really well for you guys as a strategy was actually running around contest where you’re doing something else. So basically, what you did was he saw people whinging about running competitions or running them badly. And he would basically we’ve up an example competition and say, Hey, you could run one just like this and will help you do it. And he basically just hit up a whole bunch of people with, you know, taking the time to sort of look at what they do, and build an example that better than what they’ve using currently. And yeah, that works really well. This will get things off the ground, then what helped us more than anything was, you know, it says, powered by gleam. Yes. And it’s clickable. Because, you know, that’s the reason we had a free plan. So users would basically run competitions with this little ad in the bottom for us, and then they get paid customers coming in from that. So that would probably be our best acquisition funnel. But you know, the chicken and egg problem where we needed people to run it to get that out there. So in the very early days, Steward, basically, you’re sending those emails, sending those tweets DNS himself. Yeah, I love that. Because it just speaks to the non scalable things you need to do to get it to the point where you can scale and I think a lot of startups now trying to avoid the one on one engagement, if they can, I try to get this big burst the beginning. But time time again, least when I’m interviewing people, I see people saying you actually have to make those calls or send us emails, like, that’s how it works. Well, it’s also even partnerships haven’t done that. Well, for us, I’ve had a few partnerships has got a few thousand users. But for the most part of the partnerships haven’t been a huge win for us. But yeah, as you said, a lot of people will just go, I don’t know, who will build a brand product that will just throw 100 grand in Google ads. And, you know, the problem you’ve got there is that it’s very expensive. And there’s also like, no social proof. It’s just an ad for product. So, you know, it’s very hard to even now we struggled to get decent ROI on Facebook and Google ads, just because, you know, it’s such a competitive market. Yep. That’s not getting easier. Cool. All right. Well, CIndy’s got some questions. Yes, I do. So what was the moment when you knew your partner was the one for you? My wife, his wife? Yes. Yeah, it was just seemed like a sensible thing. Like, I didn’t really put that much thought into it. Oh, where did you meet then at uni? Like we needed? So we’ve been married for 11 years together for 15 or so. So long time. So yeah, I don’t know that there was ever like, Hey, this is the one it was just like, yeah, this seems like a sensible sort of matching when it gets to the point that she like, nagging you to propose or how did that work out? And now we just sort of figured out that eventually we’d have kids, and it would probably have less stigma to have kids married, I guess. Like, I think marriage is an institution. Isn’t that amazing? Like, it’s just like a bunch of legal stuff around a relationship. It’s just seems kind of annoying. I’m pretty anti bureaucracy. There’s a reason no company has no meetings with any kind of bureaucracy. Well, that’s interesting, because I didn’t know about that. Do you mind if we just talked about the meeting thing? So what does that look like? And then why did you decide to do that? How do you have any meetings? Well, what do we do day to day, we basically just create issues in GitHub and assignment that people will have conversations. So just be I am. Oh, hi. Interesting. Yeah, so we’ve got like, 17 people now. And then basically, nobody talks to anyone. It’s all just lie in and like GitHub, Narrator: you are listening to the founders Connect podcast, helping lifestyle entrepreneurs to grow their business online and create a happier marriage. Now, back to the show. That’s amazing. And where are they, oh, Ozzy, or they sort of around the world. I built a map for this purpose. Let me just bring it and you can read it. They are as far flung as Portugal and Vancouver and we don’t have an office anywhere. There’s a team mapping for an apple. Yeah, so we’ve got Vancouver, Los Angeles, Portugal, Serbia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia, Bukit like Thailand, Malaysia, and then one person in Perth and few people in Melbourne. Wow, that’s pretty epic. Oh, yeah. Like, are you done that? And I saw on LinkedIn, you guys hiring at the moment. Oh, yeah. So we’re hiring a sort of mid senior rails JavaScript developer. Get us some of those pretty good at CSS as well. Be nice. Okay. So yeah, we’ve got a backlog of like 100 on things so we can find room for people. Yep. Hello, everyone. Listen to this. who’s interested in that? Definitely hit up Gleam team. Okay, back to your question. Cindy. So what’s the biggest challenge you faced while running your own business and maintaining your business and happy relationship with your wife. So this is a challenge regarding the biggest challenge biggest challenge. I’m work life separation, I guess, because I will work from home. And my studies, you know, to me is that way across is the bedroom. And particularly when I started working from home, my relationship with the kids has changed a bit like, you know, when I sort of go home, I would just, you know, back when I come home from work about seven o’clock at night, I’d be like, all on, like, yes, fun time with the kids for a whole hour. And now it’s just sort of like, in that time, and I’m like, No, kids are here. So it’s not, it’s gonna look less special. And I feel like I have a lot less energy just because they’re around all the time. So I feel like I can always all just spend some time with him later, or whatever. But, you know, the other times basically unlimited with them. It feels like I spend less quality time with them. Which is kind of strange, counter intuitive. Yeah, totally understand, do you have any ideas and what you can do to change that? You’re assuming you want to change? Yeah, well, it actually started using an app called strikes, it’s good. It’s just tracks how many times a week you do stuff pretty much. And yeah, I sort of scheduled several hours per week of time to deliberately, you know, sort of shut off from the company, stay away from the phone and actually spend time with the kids, which I’ve only started like a week ago. So to fix that. I’ve tried various other things before this, but they didn’t seem to work. So this new one, I think is working right. That’s interesting. I’d have to follow up with you in a few weeks ago, that we have that issue is like, same thing. How do we switch off? You know, because we’re always Yeah, always working together. And it’s always business mode versus romantic mode. But how do you do that? And be present, right? I’m gonna have to get so that’s different coming to you for advice there. Okay. Next one. So I like to this question, what’s the best tip for building sexual intimacy with your partner? So I didn’t read these questions on the list yet. So I would say get marriage counseling. That is a good one is they were experts never tell you exactly what you’re doing wrong. Because everyone’s gonna have different situations and problems. And yeah, go into a marriage counselor. They basically say, cool. I’ve seen this 700 times already. And here’s the solution. So yeah, that’s my top tier get marriage counseling. It’s worth it. And it’s a lot cheaper than divorce. Well, I was gonna say you got a couple of kids. So something’s working right for you guys. Yes, sir. Okay, there’s a question around. So one of the things we talked about with particularly couples and you mentioned finances earlier, did you and your wife have sort of similar views of money when you came into your relationship? Or how do you both approach money as a couple so I don’t deal with money much at all my wife manages the finances is the way my personality works all either not give a crap about something, I’ll give too much of a crap about something. And so I’m not really interested in like, figuring out how to pay the bills and budgeting and all that sort of stuff. So I just let her do that. And she’s happy with it. cuz she’s a lot more frugal than me. Like if he said you can control the finances. You can do whatever, I’ll be like, cool. I’m gonna go by random crap. Until we run into money today, man with you. I just want to go cards because it seemed like a good idea. I’m going to Penny farthing now. like garbage. And so we sort of had this pocket money system going for a long time. And so what would happen is I would invariably spend my pocket money for the month in like, first two weeks, every time like two weeks to be good, like, you know, might be the day I get the pocket money like cool, I’m like a bender and best just spend all this money on grabbing food, and we’re hanging out when I get to Melbourne, whereas on the other hand, she would be like, I haven’t spent money pocket money for three months, I’m gonna buy this thing. So I do that and I don’t know how to do it. So one question What’s one book or resources that is rarely mentioned? That has been a significant impact in your business resources? Yes, a book or a resource Yeah, really helped you with the business Oh, my company would have almost certainly failed. If I’d never read Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. Because when Stew and I fight and it’s very much like a married couple fighting, the way that I used to deal with that kind of conflict basically just escalated and he’s never read the book either. So. So he’s never read the book. So he, we basically just escalated, you know, tensions until we basically fallen and just gave up on each other. But you’re after reading that book, there’s sort of the ideally with conflict and negotiating, I’ve sort of, you know, been able to sort of refine like, on how always interacting with people and sort of said, Okay, this is, you know, not effective, and just how to deal with people. And that’s really yeah, I imagine that be helpful in your relationship at home as well. Yes, absolutely. That’s why like, sort of number one book for people that, you know, if I read that book, in my, like, late teens, early 20s, my life trajectory would have been vastly different. Understood, like, you know, thinking like, oh, what was I doing? Like, obviously, that was never going to be effective or useful. That was just gonna piss people off. Like, you know, basically just telling people they have wrong, people love that. Okay, final question for you, after it’s all said and done, what do you want to be remembered for? It is such a like, even though, you know, we’re running a multi million dollar business with a fairly large team, and, you know, a lot of ways sort of hit what people are aiming for, I’ve got let’s sort of grand ambitions, you know, after this, I’m not sure how long that’ll be like, we’re not playing your cell or anything like that. But, you know, I would like to see, you know, some sort of social good come out of this, like, two things I like to do is get into agriculture for the world, and also anti corruption stuff, like getting into politics, and basically fighting corruption there, there’s a sort of my life to longer term goals. But, you know, this stuff that I’m doing now is basically means to those ends and also, you know, pays the bills. Yeah, absolutely. That’s really interesting, but anti corruption stuff, because I know around voting, voting in politics, right? How can we have a security system for voting at online and not have to drag everyone into voting booths, which is a question I’ve heard before and good some point, nothing your thoughts on that? Because maybe you guys could develop something around that the other problems would be in a much higher level where basically what we have now is not a representative system at all. It’s basically just a bunch of self serving bureaucrats, new president Sorry, I prime minister we’ll get another one next week we’ll be fine next week. Oh, good. All right. Really appreciate the time but coming in. So I will listen to this claim that I owe you over there. You can get on a free trial that we were using, it’s been just amazing for our contests and we will be doing an episode maybe we’ll bring john back on there just to break down the system to how to work to how we use it. Were planning to write up on it which will share with you as well done but again, any last thoughts? Cindy, thank you so much for your time and honesty I Love it. Love to see I hang out with me get to Melbourne awesome okay Geez. alrighty so that was our interview with john Sherwood from gleam IO and talented developer and co founder of a successful business and also has been and daddy of to LA for kids so what was your takeaway from or insight from that interview Cindy are for me it was that the difference between quality time and just general time because he said that when he was working he came home it was more better quality time when he was working from home the kids are there was there and his there. And so the time is not as quality as he wanted. And so that was a great thing to point out I guess. Yeah, I agree with that. So it’s important to separate when his work time when his family time when his date and time whatever it may be. Because when you are at home like John is and working from home and you don’t have a clue he was filming in his looks like his kids study or something or his study. But it can easily get confused with kids are running in and out of time. And even worker he said, his kids feel like they’re not getting that. Yeah, it’s the quality is not about the time, then it’s the quality of getting dead as this for attention instead of I’m working. And so I think that’s a good argument then for actually having allocate a space like environment where you can actually go and work like a co working space, or a cafe or another room in your house, if that’s what you want to do. But definitely is for me, I think that one you can schedule time like on a this is a dead schedule. And this is a time for play for us client data to work the rest of the hours and, or as you can, as you said, to allocate our total space to separate the home with your business. We’ve seen that with our relationship where I will go and ride my bike. So when I go out and I actually have time where it’s me doing my thing, or if I’m like yesterday were here in our cafe, you’re meeting someone and having conversation with them. And I will just head down do my work. Then afterwards, we came back and reconnected and then it was much more greater feeling. You know, I could I could sense that. Yeah, yeah, it’s a quality. Yes. This is like how they said that distance makes you what the heart grow fonder, so I’m sorry. Okay. Cool. Awesome. So yeah, that’s mine. How about your Darling? what I really liked about that was certainly the advice around what to do with contests and making sure that it’s simple. We’ve learned this through our contest we’re running, if you make the steps too hard for people to enter, then they don’t want to do it. You have to even explain to show them how to do things like leave a review on iTunes. Lot of people don’t know how to do it. And if it gets too complex, they just they want to it and the other one, which was a surprise for me, was there no meeting policy, which means, you know, everything is assigned to GitHub, which is kind of like a task management tool like we use click up and you just assign it to the person and say, Okay, well, that’s what you need to do. And then you might have sort of private chat with each team member in the team. But there’s no weekly Let’s sit down and everyone talks about stuff like that’s interesting. I don’t know if I agree 100%. I actually liked the way we do our weekly meeting but that we can meeting is focused on auto task, its focus on what are the key priorities each week it was a for meeting is it gives you like a general idea of where the company’s going and you’d be more part of the company other than just task orientated. It seems like the system sounds like a task orientated but yeah, everybody works differently. So that’s probably works for them. So rather a multimillion dollar company so it’s working exactly so it works for them. There you go. Starting with our next episode will be digging into common marriage problems and how to overcome them. And with our next episode, we’re going to share five lessons from our first year of marriage and business Remember to live passionately, purposefully and confidently to next time. Ciao


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